Comments on: The Ends Justify the Means http://schleitheim.com/2009/05/13/the-ends-justify-the-means/ Design, Historical Studies, Life Wed, 08 Sep 2010 16:19:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: admin http://schleitheim.com/2009/05/13/the-ends-justify-the-means/comment-page-1/#comment-33 admin Sun, 24 May 2009 12:22:53 +0000 http://schleitheim.com/2009/05/13/the-ends-justify-the-means/#comment-33 Mary, thank you so much for leaving your thoughts. Hopefully you've also taken a few minutes to fill out the Christians and Torture survey: http://bit.ly/TrY68 <blockquote>I, as a Christian, believe that our government has the right to employ tactics, even enhanced interrogation techniques, that will allow it to fulfill its obligations under the Constitution to the people it governs and that the Bible according to Romans 13 establishes that right.</blockquote> I have to disagree. The torture or enhanced interrogation was illegal and, in the eyes of any Christian (at least I don't see yet how Christians could say differently), a reprehensible way to treat other humans created in God's image. Paul gave no such indication in his letter to the Romans that torturing people was alright. That's not how far the sword extended. Mary, thank you so much for leaving your thoughts.

Hopefully you’ve also taken a few minutes to fill out the Christians and Torture survey: http://bit.ly/TrY68

I, as a Christian, believe that our government has the right to employ tactics, even enhanced interrogation techniques, that will allow it to fulfill its obligations under the Constitution to the people it governs and that the Bible according to Romans 13 establishes that right.

I have to disagree. The torture or enhanced interrogation was illegal and, in the eyes of any Christian (at least I don’t see yet how Christians could say differently), a reprehensible way to treat other humans created in God’s image. Paul gave no such indication in his letter to the Romans that torturing people was alright. That’s not how far the sword extended.

]]> By: Mary http://schleitheim.com/2009/05/13/the-ends-justify-the-means/comment-page-1/#comment-29 Mary Sat, 23 May 2009 19:59:09 +0000 http://schleitheim.com/2009/05/13/the-ends-justify-the-means/#comment-29 I believe God has given governments the right to use the sword ( Romans 13:1-7) for His purposes to bring justice to the nations and to defend the weak. If that sword is used to extract information that might save a nation from terrorism then so be it. "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established... But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer." Romans 13:4 Whether or not the US is a Christian nation is of no real importance according to Romans 13. It is instituted by God and for this time is also the superpower on the planet. Praise God it is still concerned with justice for the most part. We are an instrument of justice and a defender of those who cannot defend themselves. The US government's main job according to the preamble of the Constitution is "We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." Establish Justice justice 1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause. 2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice. 3. the moral principle determining just conduct. 4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment. 5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward. 6. the maintenance or administration of what is just by law, as by judicial or other proceedings: a court of justice. 7. judgment of persons or causes by judicial process: to administer justice in a community. 8. a judicial officer; a judge or magistrate. 9. (initial capital letter) Also called Justice Department. the Department of Justice. —Idioms 10. bring to justice, to cause to come before a court for trial or to receive punishment for one's misdeeds: The murderer was brought to justice. 11. do justice, a. to act or treat justly or fairly. b. to appreciate properly: We must see this play again to do it justice. c. to acquit in accordance with one's abilities or potentialities: He finally got a role in which he could do himself justice as an actor. I believe that enemy nations can be brought to justice as well as individuals. Insure Domestic Tranquility: (according to http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html) One of the concerns of the Framers was that the government prior to that under the Constitution was unable, by force or persuasion, to quell rebellion or quarrels amongst the states. The government watched in horror as Shay's Rebellion transpired just before the Convention, and some states had very nearly gone to war with each other over territory (such as between Pennsylvania and Connecticut over Wilkes-Barre). One of the main goals of the Convention, then, was to ensure the federal government had powers to squash rebellion and to smooth tensions between states. Me: I'll bet it could be said that it also includes the rights of the governed to be defended against terrorist attacks. Provide for the common defense pretty much says that the government is responsible for defending its citizens against enemies foreign and domestic. I, as a Christian, believe that our government has the right to employ tactics, even enhanced interrogation techniques, that will allow it to fulfill its obligations under the Constitution to the people it governs and that the Bible according to Romans 13 establishes that right. Sincerely, Mary. I believe God has given governments the right to use the sword ( Romans 13:1-7) for His purposes to bring justice to the nations and to defend the weak. If that sword is used to extract information that might save a nation from terrorism then so be it.

“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established…
But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.” Romans 13:4

Whether or not the US is a Christian nation is of no real importance according to Romans 13. It is instituted by God and for this time is also the superpower on the planet. Praise God it is still concerned with justice for the most part.
We are an instrument of justice and a defender of those who cannot defend themselves. The US government’s main job according to the preamble of the Constitution is
“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

Establish Justice
justice
1. the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of a cause.
2. rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.
3. the moral principle determining just conduct.
4. conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.
5. the administering of deserved punishment or reward.
6. the maintenance or administration of what is just by law, as by judicial or other proceedings: a court of justice.
7. judgment of persons or causes by judicial process: to administer justice in a community.
8. a judicial officer; a judge or magistrate.
9. (initial capital letter) Also called Justice Department. the Department of Justice.
—Idioms
10. bring to justice, to cause to come before a court for trial or to receive punishment for one’s misdeeds: The murderer was brought to justice.
11. do justice,
a. to act or treat justly or fairly.
b. to appreciate properly: We must see this play again to do it justice.
c. to acquit in accordance with one’s abilities or potentialities: He finally got a role in which he could do himself justice as an actor.

I believe that enemy nations can be brought to justice as well as individuals.

Insure Domestic Tranquility: (according to http://www.usconstitution.net/glossary.html)
One of the concerns of the Framers was that the government prior to that under the Constitution was unable, by force or persuasion, to quell rebellion or quarrels amongst the states. The government watched in horror as Shay’s Rebellion transpired just before the Convention, and some states had very nearly gone to war with each other over territory (such as between Pennsylvania and Connecticut over Wilkes-Barre). One of the main goals of the Convention, then, was to ensure the federal government had powers to squash rebellion and to smooth tensions between states.

Me: I’ll bet it could be said that it also includes the rights of the governed to be defended against terrorist attacks.

Provide for the common defense pretty much says that the government is responsible for defending its citizens against enemies foreign and domestic.

I, as a Christian, believe that our government has the right to employ tactics, even enhanced interrogation techniques, that will allow it to fulfill its obligations under the Constitution to the people it governs and that the Bible according to Romans 13 establishes that right.

Sincerely,
Mary.

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